总觉得你谈论是如何和一件物品相处而不是和人相处。和人相处没有这么简单的，类似计算机编好的程序一样，if yes go this branch else go others。人在做选择的时候都是在现有条件下综合考虑尽量多的因素做平衡，所以它永远是最好的选择。 -yusheng(拜月) @费城华人论坛:费城枫下论坛 The Rolia Forum of Philadelphia

枫下佳缘 / 情爱悠悠 / 反正我觉得帮不帮女士开车门和女性独立一毛钱关系都没有~~~ 只是男人的一种 MANNER 而已 :) -littlebird09(小小鸟); 21:46 (#7855047@0)。。。。这话必须顶。。。。！就像帮女人hold着门一样。。。。其实你根本不认识对方。。。。完全可以熟视无睹。。。。 -tigar25(大忽悠之切你没商量); 2012-10-22 {20} (#7855199@0)
基本礼貌而已。。。。

那天去吃越南粉，看见前方一个麻子脸梳小辫儿的男银扔下后面的女的自个儿滋溜钻到店里面去了。当时还在想是不是你呢～咋这么没礼貌涅。LOL -lilianliang(彪妹); 2012-10-22 (#7855217@0)

是啊。。。。太没礼貌。。。。 -tigar25(大忽悠之切你没商量); 2012-10-22 {50} (#7855235@0)
给她拉门没有。。。。？没拉门滴话肯定不是俺。。。。

哟，好像还真没有呢～那错怪你啦。 -lilianliang(彪妹); 2012-10-22 (#7855240@0)

同意...俺还得一下反省自己不够绅士...:D -ibean(黑豆子); 2012-10-22 (#7855233@0)

那还不赶紧改正～～～：） -littlebird09(小小鸟); 2012-10-22 (#7855260@0)

行...:D -ibean(黑豆子); 2012-10-22 {34} (#7855270@0)
在车里面给女士开门...算不算呢...:D

你．．． -littlebird09(小小鸟); 2012-10-22 {24} (#7855277@0)
当心她喊非礼～～～ＬＯＬ

那俺在车外给她开门...:D -ibean(黑豆子); 2012-10-22 {35} (#7855304@0)
顺手帮她解开安全带算不算绅士呢...:D

如果她是你的女朋友，她会在你弯腰为她解安全戴时咬你一下 ^^ -princemeetsprincess(西门小鸟); 2012-10-22 (#7855329@0)

俺其实不是要给她解安全带...:D -ibean(黑豆子); 2012-10-22 {21} (#7855338@0)
是要tickletickle...:D

那她会很开心地笑到滚到座位下面了^^ -princemeetsprincess(西门小鸟); 2012-10-22 (#7855376@0)

嗯...一直笑到餐馆里点菜都没法点...:D -ibean(黑豆子); 2012-10-22 (#7855387@0)

你俩。。。。 -tigar25(大忽悠之切你没商量); 2012-10-22 {16} (#7855401@0)
想干嘛。。。。？

演电影...:D -ibean(黑豆子); 2012-10-22 (#7855410@0)

咬一下。。。。算是。。。。？ -tigar25(大忽悠之切你没商量); 2012-10-22 (#7855388@0)

仔细瞅清楚喽。。。。 -tigar25(大忽悠之切你没商量); 2012-10-22 {24} (#7855333@0)
别把手伸皮带上去。。。。

不会的...:D -ibean(黑豆子); 2012-10-22 {25} (#7855362@0)
黑灯瞎火的根本看不清...:D

hold住门只针对女人吗？我一直以为是为了下一个人，不论男女的。 -yusheng(拜月); 2012-10-22 (#7855311@0)

赞同～每天接送孩子，我净给人当门童了。还有人大摇大摆进进出出连句谢谢都没有呢～ -lilianliang(彪妹); 2012-10-22 (#7855320@0)

而且那个原帖看了真让人不舒服。上来就中国男人怎么怎么撮。我在白人为主的小城市这么多年，除了老态龙中的夫妇以外没见过男人为太太开车门，都是各开个的，跳上就走。 -yusheng(拜月); 2012-10-22 (#7855337@0)

嗯，尤其“调教”两个字用的很扎眼。听起来像训宠物～开开玩笑也就算了，真要处心积虑到调教的份儿上，也挺累的。何必呢？找个现成的好的免调教的不更好么。 -lilianliang(彪妹); 2012-10-22 (#7855344@0)

我感觉她说的＂调教＂也是调侃的成份比较多～～～人无完人，我倒觉得好多好习惯也是慢慢培养出来的～～当然取决于人的不同要求 -littlebird09(小小鸟); 2012-10-22 (#7855385@0)
不知道你有没在家谭看到，我转过来吧。I think what she meant 调教 was to let your partner know what you expect (and I agree this is very important in a relationship), and it is up to you whether to tolerate if he does not meet your expectation -princemeetsprincess(西门小鸟); 2012-10-22 (#7855386@0)

噢，我看到了～不好意思让你又贴一次哈。这个MM应该感谢你如此良善地理解她的措辞，不过在我眼中，看到的仍然是一副高高在上的口吻。觉得挺不舒服的～ -lilianliang(彪妹); 2012-10-22 (#7855423@0)

我lg帮我开的。不仅开，还会帮我把安全带也系上。他34岁，没有老态龙钟 ^^ -princemeetsprincess(西门小鸟); 2012-10-22 (#7855367@0)

你这样的占多少比例，你调查过吗？如果西人８０％都这样，你可以说中国男人怎么怎么样。如果只是零星现象，有什么资格以此贬低中国男人？原帖作者不是中国男人后代？ -yusheng(拜月); 2012-10-23 (#7855714@0)

did she 贬低中国男人？she didn't even mention what western guys would do in her article. She just simply suggested women should fearlessly express what she wants. and I don't understand what she did wrong? -princemeetsprincess(西门小鸟); 2012-10-23 {305} (#7855759@0)
maybe she did not express in a way the people would accept, but her concept was absolutely right. however, some men over reacted to that and thought she was forcing them to do something, but in fact, she just stood for what she truly needed, and that is her right to dismiss any men not meeting her needs.

＂要想让中国男人给你开车门，要不是新车要不是新女人＂，这不是贬低挖苦是赞扬啊？她要能给出多少比例的其他人种男人给你开车门同时车是旧的，才能说明她的结论是对的。这种居高临下的调教带一种令人厌恶的自得。无非是想说她自己多么有手段而已。 -yusheng(拜月); 2012-10-23 (#7855770@0)

you are over serious, and maybe she was right, just look at how chinese people react to open the door for women. -princemeetsprincess(西门小鸟); 2012-10-23 (#7855790@0)

你把这帖翻成英文贴到各大英文论坛去，看看how non-chinese people react to open the door for women.做个调查，什么年龄段，婚龄段的男人有什么样的回答。除了开车门，还可以看看多少non-chinese men's react to 铲雪除草倒垃圾照顾产妇等等， -yusheng(拜月); 2012-10-23 {46} (#7855814@0)
看看他们有多少人坚定不移的认为这是男人的责任。

You still don't understand. These are not responsibilties of men's. These are how a woman requires a man watering her, and how she is able to stand at the receiving end of love, so that he will be able to love her. -princemeetsprincess(西门小鸟); 2012-10-23 (#7855828@0)

愿帖的语气内容是想让人understand这些吗？如果她说，你应该怎样提出你的要求，注意些什么，那是你说的这些。可她没有，她的意思是，你苦你累你抱怨啊？自找的，谁叫你不象我能张嘴要的？向别人要感情，是连刚生下来的baby都会的本能。 -yusheng(拜月); 2012-10-23 (#7855835@0)

she did not ask for love, she asked for a loving and giving man, and nothing wrong with that. I already said she may not express herself well, but her concept was absolutely right. -princemeetsprincess(西门小鸟); 2012-10-23 (#7855856@0)

a loving and giving man, but no love,that's what she was asking for? -yusheng(拜月); 2012-10-23 (#7855866@0)

how come you distort it like that? I can't believe this. asking a loving and giving man could be any man who meets her needs and loves her, while ask for love is different, you want love from this man even he is not going to give you. -princemeetsprincess(西门小鸟); 2012-10-23 (#7855873@0)

呵呵果然不傻，得到一个loving and giving man自然就得到了爱，当然不用askingForLove。你不觉得听到一个女人说：＂我要一个爱我能为我奉献的男人＂有什么不对的地方么？这个本质就是在要感情。 -yusheng(拜月); 2012-10-23 (#7855892@0)

well, love and happiness definitely come from choosing, choose a man you want is the most important thing in a successful relationship. You say NO to those would not give will make room for you to let the man you want in. -princemeetsprincess(西门小鸟); 2012-10-23 (#7855925@0)

我不认为爱来自于选择。象去超市挑土豆那样挑结婚对象并不能让你内心产生更多的爱。你当然可以理智的去控制自己，不见最好的兔子不撒鹰，但别把这些冠以爱这个字眼。当你真爱上一个人的时候，不管他是你的孩子，男朋友还是父母，你本能会去想我能为他做什么。 -yusheng(拜月); 2012-10-23 {74} (#7855973@0)
你很可能会受伤，因为对方没给你同样的，但那是爱的后续，还是potientially的。

settle down for something less than you want is not love, it is lack of confidence, it is fear of not able to meet the man you really dream about. -princemeetsprincess(西门小鸟); 2012-10-23 (#7856005@0)

太绝对了。那个婚后要求老公开车门的是不是lack of confidence,fear of not able to meet a open-door man? 如果回答是YES那么你上面说的提要求就不reasonable，婚前干吗去了？ -yusheng(拜月); 2012-10-23 (#7856058@0)

Yes, if a caring man was what she wanted, she did make the biggest mistake and many women did that because fear of not able to get married at certain age. -princemeetsprincess(西门小鸟); 2012-10-23 {387} (#7856095@0)
but she still could express what she wanted in a marriage when she finally realized she wanted that, and it would be up to her to accept or leave when her husband said NO. of course, if you think you are fine with a boring man who does not buy his wife any roses, gifts, does not want to work hard to please her,then it is also your choice to give up on inspring him to do that for you.

总觉得你谈论是如何和一件物品相处而不是和人相处。和人相处没有这么简单的，类似计算机编好的程序一样，if yes go this branch else go others。人在做选择的时候都是在现有条件下综合考虑尽量多的因素做平衡，所以它永远是最好的选择。 -yusheng(拜月); 2012-10-23 {784} (#7856203@0)
你说她就是怕错过结婚年龄就匆忙嫁给不喜欢的人？这是因为当时那就是她最好的选择。不信如果她预先知道她未来的丈夫会揍她致死，她还会因为错过年龄而结婚吗？肯定不会。她嫁给一个不太喜欢的人，那是因为这个人身上一定有吸引她结婚的地方。她并没有忽略那些令人不快的地方，而是考虑各种因素后还是往前去试了。你不能否定哪些令人不快的地方有可能会自动消失。比如男人好烟酒，令你很难接受，但它真有可能在你要孩子之前就自动消失了，因为这个男人更重视子嗣的健康。

当然也有可能婚后加重了。这时候最不太可能发生的就是你说的，他答应，你快乐的和他继续；他不答应，你转头离婚。最有可能的是失望和希望并存，直到老都是这样。那些边骂老公边过日子的，你看她很痛苦，但again，这个状态，是她已经做了决定的结果，这是她综合考虑后选择的最好结果。你听她追悔莫及的反复念到，当初瞎了眼...如果时光到流，你再让她选１００次，还是他。

but you forget there are many ways to inspire a man ( not change him) and turn him to be a prince charming, however, before he can become a prince charming, you must give the room for him to become one, for example, -princemeetsprincess(西门小鸟); 2012-10-23 {126} (#7856238@0)
not overfunctioning, not taking his role to act like a hero and say I don't need you to do that because I can do that myself.

如果女人说i can do everything and you don't need to do anything，那是你说的情况。有这样的女人吗？那些抱怨老公啥活都不干的，你难道没看出来她并不想改变什么吗？把一切都拦过来，体力上累可她赢得的更多她想要的，看不见的东西。 -yusheng(拜月); 2012-10-23 (#7856269@0)

well, I don't want to change those women if that's what they really enjoy. I am talking about there is nothing wrong to let you partner know what you want and inspire him to give you what you want. -princemeetsprincess(西门小鸟); 2012-10-23 (#7856277@0)

Don't need to worry about your partner not knowing what you want. He absolutely know what you want,including those trivial stuff like open the door.What frustrated is how to inspire him. The key is change yourself. -yusheng(拜月); 2012-10-23 (#7856303@0)

Change attitude may be needed, but not change yourself to settle down with something less than you want. And you may be surprised how many men actually do not know what his woman wants, -princemeetsprincess(西门小鸟); 2012-10-23 {275} (#7856334@0)
the simplist way to deal with man is to tell him in a direct, short manner, not let him guess and assume he knows what you want -:)

anyway, I think we have fundamental concept disagreement and I don't want to turn out wasting time convincing each other. I will stop here.

如果结婚１０多年了男人还不知道老婆想要什么，他要不是装的，因为这个要求超出了他的能力，他正面拒绝又怕伤老婆心，要不是老婆的确没这个要求。很多老婆口里要求老公做这个做那个，但不是认真的。那个例子，男人被质问为何不为老婆开门，委屈的回答她不我这个机会， -yusheng(拜月); 2012-10-23 {375} (#7856392@0)
却一直没提到，那个老婆有这个需求吗？

我看到过一例中国男人给太太开车门的，当时下大雪天冷及了，车没有remote engine start 功能。男人想让车先发动起来这样热起来更快，手里还有购物成果。他选择先发动车，把东西放好，再下来给太太开门。整个过程不到一分钟，这个太太宁愿多冻着，也不愿自己开门进去，就这么等着。

她如果破了这个例，那么下次很可能就没有这个待遇了。这是demanding的难处。

嗯...是为下一个人....hold住门如果用胳膊...或腿...或身体...有没有什么不礼貌的...:D -ibean(黑豆子); 2012-10-22 (#7855321@0)
连帮女滴都做不到。。。。下一个就更不可能咧。。。。 -tigar25(大忽悠之切你没商量); 2012-10-22 (#7855327@0)

就说到这吧。 -c_w(.); 2012-10-22 (#7855373@0)

啥意思。。。。？ -tigar25(大忽悠之切你没商量); 2012-10-22 {34} (#7855397@0)
不让俺说话还是你跟错贴了。。。。？

可能她说她困了要去睡了...:D -ibean(黑豆子); 2012-10-22 (#7855404@0)

哦。。。。 -tigar25(大忽悠之切你没商量); 2012-10-22 {20} (#7855413@0)
这个不用请假。。。。

我突然想起来，我家还是我开车多一些。他打开车门让我上车当他司机，是不是有点儿怪？LOL -lilianliang(彪妹); 2012-10-22 (#7855314@0)

你俩的时候。。。。也是你开车。。。。？ -tigar25(大忽悠之切你没商量); 2012-10-22 (#7855323@0)

对啊，很奇怪么？开长途的时候也差不多是一半一半，夜路他开，白天我开。 -lilianliang(彪妹); 2012-10-22 (#7855348@0)

这个还真没想到。。。。多长算长途。。。。？ -tigar25(大忽悠之切你没商量); 2012-10-22 {52} (#7855363@0)
除了喝大酒。。。。否则俺滴车是不会给别人开滴。。。。

单程5、6个小时以上就算了吧，对我来说。 -lilianliang(彪妹); 2012-10-22 {22} (#7855372@0)
我不开你车，你放心吧。

哦。。。。 -tigar25(大忽悠之切你没商量); 2012-10-22 {50} (#7855384@0)
5、6个小时对俺来说就一脚油滴事。。。。嘿嘿。。。。

原来你是开火箭的～ -lilianliang(彪妹); 2012-10-22 {28} (#7855391@0)
慢点儿飞，注意着点儿高压线。

难得啊...开车多....你一定有些方面很厉害吧...:D -ibean(黑豆子); 2012-10-22 (#7855331@0)

我想了半天，想不明白开车多，除了开车厉害，还有哪方面能厉害……你指教指教？ -lilianliang(彪妹); 2012-10-22 (#7855356@0)

可能你方向感强...运动也不错...动手能力也行...胆大心细...给人信任感......:D -ibean(黑豆子); 2012-10-22 (#7855379@0)

谢谢。 -lilianliang(彪妹); 2012-10-22 (#7855426@0)
阿庆嫂。。。 -tattooo(刺青); 2012-10-23 (#7855782@0)

只能说 HOLD 住门给下个人。至于下个人是男是女，根本没关系。 -c_w(.); 2012-10-22 (#7855354@0)

#7855327@0。。。。 -tigar25(大忽悠之切你没商量); 2012-10-22 (#7855370@0)

就说到这吧。 -c_w(.); 2012-10-22 (#7855377@0)

#7855397@0。。。。 -tigar25(大忽悠之切你没商量); 2012-10-22 (#7855398@0)

平时，我几乎为所有在后面的人Hold住门，无论男女老少，，，和LD 2人约会，或是穿礼服的时候，我是门把手碰都不碰一下，哪怕先走到门口也会退后，等LD来开。。。 -lifeisgoodd(life is fun); 2012-10-22 (#7855421@0)

LD是他。。。。？ -tigar25(大忽悠之切你没商量); 2012-10-23 {52} (#7855477@0)
潭里很多把她当LD滴。。。。今天让俺看到了真相。。。。

@Philadelphia

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