It's not about if he is capable or not. It's about the way he is managing Canada. He is manipulating not managing. -wade(wade) @费城华人论坛:费城枫下论坛 The Rolia Forum of Philadelphia

枫下茶话 / 政治经济 / Chretien 这臭丑老头，要退明天就退，还要赖18个月，真无聊。看到CTV采访BC 民众，大多数巴不得他早走。估计安省恐怕还有很多人支持他，在BC就甭指望了。 -kevin2000(流星雨-反对灌水); 2002-8-22 (#706820@0)

他有什么问题？ -ffa500(橙色); 2002-8-22 (#706821@0)

最严重的问题：长得丑，影响加拿大国际形象。 -kevin2000(流星雨-反对灌水); 2002-8-22 (#706824@0)

克里斯托夫比他PP吧 -blue_blooded(Street Urchin); 2002-8-22 (#706832@0)
请勿以貌取人 -lksm(lksm); 2002-8-22 (#706834@0)
呵呵，政坛又非bbs坛。再说那么漂亮，少不了女孩子追。总理怕是天天感叹“这么多女孩子追，影响事业，拒绝又怕伤害友谊，真烦” -lilyba(Sunshine); 2002-8-22 (#706837@0)

嘿嘿 -tropicalfish(热带鱼); 2002-8-22 (#707450@0)

2、丑闻缠身。3、对西部极度忽视，因为西部是Canadian Alliance的天下，每次chretien来vancouver, 都有民众抗议。 -kevin2000(流星雨-反对灌水); 2002-8-22 (#706829@0)

That BC is poor is not the problem of Chretien. It is the problem of your provincial minister and the enconomic system of BC. I don't think BC's economy can be improved even if the old guy resign right now. -wins(wins); 2002-8-22 (#706836@0)

NDP的失误当然是主要原因，但liberal 政府长期对西部的冷漠也是不可忽视的原因。这也就是CA为什么能在西部获得压倒性支持的原因。 -kevin2000(流星雨-反对灌水); 2002-8-22 (#706840@0)

Why is Alberta even better than BC, you may blame that Alberta is rich in oil. But I still think BC's poverty is because of its welfare system and economic policy. It is just like a communist country. -wins(wins); 2002-8-22 (#706848@0)

你没看我说的，(BC)NDP 的10年执政是主要原因，可也有次要原因啊。抬杠，死倔。 -kevin2000(流星雨-反对灌水); 2002-8-22 (#706850@0)
"BC's poverty is because of its welfare system and economic policy"???我们每月要交一百多元的医疗保险耶. -gitar(lala); 2002-8-22 (#707825@0)

Do you need to pay PST in BC? -hearts(hearts); 2002-8-22 (#707845@0)

当然要交, 在BC, PST加上GST为14.5%,怎么样,比你们高吧,呵呵,而且在BC,MSP还要自己每个月交钱,如果没有孩子的两口之家是交九十多(可能是96,也许是92,),三口之家一百多.你们MSP是free的吧 -jacky2001(beyond); 2002-8-22 (#708037@0)

我来说两句 -jacky2001(beyond); 2002-8-22 {616} (#708088@0)
其实BC是靠卖软木的,最大的买家是日本,所以十年前随着日本经济高速发展,BC经济也很好,是加拿大排头几位的富省,所以制定了一些比较"好"的福利政策,但随着日本经济的衰退,再加上美国对软木征收高税,对BC打击很大,而福利政策却没变,所以在用光了"存款"之后,对有些福利政策,省政府就显得有些负担不起了,BC伦为倒数第一第二的穷省,当然,省政府在经济好有钱的时候,没有想到要大力发展经济,而是愚蠢得认为光靠卖软木就够大家吃的了,主要责任还是在他们

同BC一样,Alberta也是靠卖自然资源,它是靠卖石油的,所以也可能有一天会落入窘境,不过,石油比软木好很多,毕竟全世界都大量需要,并不只是一个或几个国家要,所以它可能比BC好一点. 不过,老是靠卖家产总不是什么好事

Chretien is very bad, I hope he could die soon. -pyramid(金字塔); 2002-8-22 (#707425@0)

这种话，你也能说出来？汗颜 -lilyba(Sunshine); 2002-8-22 (#707429@0)

Why not? That is only my hope. Too many problems in Canada. Of course I will say nothing if he is a 老百姓。 -pyramid(金字塔); 2002-8-22 (#707435@0)
确实西方人有脆弱得多的生命观。有本书/电影《green miles》，说监狱管电椅的人的故事。他们把生命（包括坏人的、动物的）看的巨重。这话听来确实有点野蛮。 -win(秋天的菠菜); 2002-8-22 (#707468@0)

我看过这个电影啊。我最痛恨诅咒。不喜欢他，说出理由，又不是3岁的孩子。 -lilyba(Sunshine); 2002-8-22 (#707475@0)

@@,啥深仇大恨？ -pola(pola); 2002-8-22 (#707432@0)
你也太可爱了！看看加拿大这几年的发展再说吧。 -luoboyang(萝卜秧); 2002-8-22 (#707433@0)

For the past 4 years, nothing developed in Canada. I hope Martin will improve this. -pyramid(金字塔); 2002-8-22 (#707439@0)

首先，不要轻易诅咒一个人死，即使他是政客。其次，不知道你的结论哪里来的。 -luoboyang(萝卜秧); 2002-8-22 (#707456@0)

Four years before I came to Canada as a visitor. I knew two Chinese friends, both of them are CS professional. One earned 80K, another earned 100K. At that time a very good 2 bedroom apt was only $850. -pyramid(金字塔); 2002-8-22 {349} (#708134@0)
Our apartment located at a very good place in Toronto, south of Scarbrough, lake side. The place is quiet and the neighbour are very nice. Then four years later I have been here again but as an immigrant, the salary for many CS guys are only 30-50K, while an apartment like that costs about $1200. Do you think this is a big progress???????!!!!!!!!!

你是说发展好还是不好呀 -win(秋天的菠菜); 2002-8-22 (#707472@0)
直说一下，这10几年来加拿大到底是进步了还是退步了，这不是很明显吗。4年前也是liberal执政啊。 -kevin2000(流星雨-反对灌水); 2002-8-22 (#707474@0)

他是8年前执政的，我认为这8年加拿大一直处于上升阶段，但这是受美国和世界的影响。只能说，自由党执政使得加拿大保持了同步，当然发展缓慢。但 -luoboyang(萝卜秧); 2002-8-22 {76} (#707482@0)
最近1，2年在美国的衰退中，加拿大的表现要优于美国，这说明了执政党的策略得当。

我不懂政治，但我认为你讲的有理有据。 -lilyba(Sunshine); 2002-8-22 (#707486@0)

谢谢捧场啊。：-） -luoboyang(萝卜秧); 2002-8-22 (#707493@0)

一个经济缺乏活力的国家进步迟缓，衰退当然也迟缓，这并不是什么值得夸耀的东西。加拿大根本没有与美国保持同步，而是差距在不断增大。加拿大的最值得骄傲的两样东西：医疗和社会保障系统实际上已经千疮百孔，难以维持。 -kevin2000(流星雨-反对灌水); 2002-8-22 (#707492@0)

这是一种取舍，想要美国那样的繁荣，你就要舍弃医疗，福利等。维持福利，就要高税收，打击先进。当地有不少人宁愿穷些，也不要两极分化，引起社会治安问题。电视上经常可以看到这样的观点。 -luoboyang(萝卜秧); 2002-8-22 (#707499@0)

现在在经济衰退的影响下和反对党的逼迫下，国家和各省政府已经采取了很多接近于美国的政策，私有化安省最厉害，现在BC也在搞，所谓高福利、医疗制度根本已经撑不下去了。liberal是个缺乏远见的政党，逼一步走一步，是它的策略。 -kevin2000(流星雨-反对灌水); 2002-8-22 (#707511@0)

liberal要是敢砍掉福利、医疗制度，就不是liberal，而是ALLANCE了。也就上不了台了。 -dundas888(敦达寺); 2002-8-22 (#707517@0)

I think Liberal's problem is Corruption. -wade(wade); 2002-8-22 {920} (#707635@0)
It's not as bad as in China but a lot of government money just gone for nothing.

I don't think Jean Chretien is a good leader. But he is a good politician, as a lot of Chinese leader in China, who put personal goal/interest in fornt of th country. Just look at how he handle the scandles in the cabinet. During the past 8 years of his governing, the education and health system in Canada are deteriating because of the budget cuts from the governement. The industry is just so so thanks to the States (who is the PM of industry durin 92-98, John Manley, the deputy PM now) not the work of government.

Anyway, I just wish Jean Chretien would step down now instead of after 18 monthes. More than 60% Canadian want hime to step down now. But it's OK, he does not care what the Canadians think. He has his own plan. It's sad that Canada have a leader who master the rule of being dictator in a democratic country.

"最近1，2年在美国的衰退中，加拿大的表现要优于美国"??? NT vs Cisco, CAN$ vs US$, Toronto Stock vs DJ...? -gitar(lala); 2002-8-22 (#707827@0)

NATIONAL POST 8/19. 加拿大今年工作NET INCREASE 320000个, 美国NET LOSS 116000个. 当然这里包括很多从美国搬到加拿大来的人. -contact(Contact); 2002-8-23 (#709166@0)

失业率达到20年来的最低. 没有巨型公司欺诈,倒闭.恢复比美国快. 平稳.中增长. 请用事实,数据,而不是个人好恶, 更不是非要标新立异地评论. -yong(yang); 2002-8-22 (#708482@0)

你真是个不可理予之人。Chrestien怎么你啦？就因为把你骗来了加拿大还不让你回国？再怎么着，也比咱江CORE强吧。 -newhero(大江); 2002-8-22 (#707436@0)

Why did u reply me if the first part of your reply was true? -pyramid(金字塔); 2002-8-22 (#707449@0)

无他，立此存照而已。 -newhero(大江); 2002-8-22 (#707458@0)

其实江书记也不错的 -win(秋天的菠菜); 2002-8-22 (#707476@0)

??????????????? -goodbaby(小宝); 2002-8-22 (#707451@0)
天啊，金同学，你太幼稚可笑了，没有他，你都来不了CANADA。连这种话都说的出口，怪不得没老婆 :p -7654321(蹋塌米); 2002-8-23 (#708639@0)

怎么来不了加拿大，你从哪里得出这样的结论？他对移民法的影响很小！你不知道他不喜欢中国移民吗？他不重视西部，只因为西部亚裔太多。 -pyramid(金字塔); 2002-8-23 (#709033@0)

他不重视西部，只因为西部亚裔太多。---可笑的结论。历来政坛要人均来自东部，尤其是魁省。对西部的忽略是由来已久的。看了你的这几个贴子，建议你再多了解一些加拿大历史和政治。 -luoboyang(萝卜秧); 2002-8-23 (#709091@0)

打倒东部政党！！老克马上下台！！ :-) -kevin2000(流星雨-反对灌水); 2002-8-23 (#709097@0)

呵呵，我倒是觉得上台的恐怕更不利啊。 -luoboyang(萝卜秧); 2002-8-23 (#709107@0)

不知道MARTIN的真正的政治见解是什么，就觉得他的政治历年和老克是一样的，就是象林表一样，想趁没退休之前做做总理过过蚓。 -ningxin0809(菊扇); 2002-8-22 (#707638@0)

I am not a Paul Martin supporter. But I think he is an OK Finance Minister. -wade(wade); 2002-8-22 {219} (#707664@0)
His becoming PM may do well to Canada since a lot of Financial Institues will buy him. He definitely wants to become a PM since his father was one step away from PM too. I guess he did not want to repeat the history :).

我也特希望这老头能成，至少他长的比老克好看：）不过老克可是很有成绩的人， -ningxin0809(菊扇); 2002-8-22 (#707676@0)

不过老克可是很有成绩的人. Not really. His achivement is nothing but no mistake. -wade(wade); 2002-8-22 {249} (#707701@0)
The problem is the media in Canada is not very sharp. They always paint a rosy picture while we all see the standard of living in Canada is getting worse. I heard some pretty bad stuff about how the government managing the country. It's pretty sad.

各国都一样，但是这老头抓地住大方向，这次换人我也希望能上来一个细则的人 -ningxin0809(菊扇); 2002-8-22 (#707711@0)
当总理或总统并不要太有能耐的，就像克林顿一样，整天泡妞，但是手下的财长和其他部长都有很强的能力，同样，老克能一直让martin执行较稳妥的经济政策就已经证明他知道如何任用人。 -wins(wins); 2002-8-22 {76} (#707833@0)
反之，像布什这种自以为万能的疯子，我看不出美国在他任期内能够强劲复苏的希望。

It's not about if he is capable or not. It's about the way he is managing Canada. He is manipulating not managing. -wade(wade); 2002-8-22 {545} (#707926@0)
I think Canada is better off with someone less skillful in politics. You can't just say he let Paul Martin to be finance minister. You should see why he let John Manly to become deputy PM, why the scandles just died a few month ago without any improvment in government regarding corruption. Don't even mention the past 10 years Canada does not catch the train of the hi-tech booming. It was said Jean Chretin's government is no better than Malrony's. You probably know how bad that one was. Anyway, I am not impressed by his work at all :).

"The Prime Minister (has opened) the door to 18 months of fractious infighting, jockeying for position and opening questioning of government policies," said the Globe and Mail. -countryman(还是去不了香港); 2002-8-22 (#707784@0)
If Harris want to come out to lead PC, I would vote him to be the PM. He is the best leader of Ontario. -trucluster(Trucluster); 2002-8-22 (#707852@0)
还有老克不安好心，存心挑起内斗。心胸开阔的话，现在就应该退位，让martin 上任。给出18个月来，就是要使坏，培植反对martin的实力，拆martin台。哼，我下了也不能让你上。 -kevin2000(流星雨-反对灌水); 2002-8-23 (#709047@0)
他还算不错了. 要是现在还是保守党执政, 中国新移民根本来不了. -contact(Contact); 2002-8-23 (#709160@0)

Not true. :) It is said that the current policy Liberal is having now is actually following the policy made by Malrony's Cabinet. Apparently, the current -wade(wade); 2002-8-23 {133} (#709644@0)
governement did not invent anything new. It means even with Malrony's government, the immigration policy would not be too different.

@Philadelphia

It's not about if he is capable or not. It's about the way he is managing Canada. He is manipulating not managing.

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