thank for your advice, -braveheart(braveheart) @费城华人论坛:费城枫下论坛 The Rolia Forum of Philadelphia

工作学习 / IT杂谈 / Friends in Toronto, please advise me -jabber(jabber); 2000-11-14 {1577} (#14442@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛I have some questions to consult with friends in Toronto.

I wish to set up a computer training school in Toronto. It takes me a long time to make such a decision.
At present, a lot of things are unclear to me. But I have some baselines:
1) I do training only in the evening and at weekend. I don't think I can support my family by doing training.
So I will do Java consulting in the daytime.
2) My training will fall into two categories. One for laymen, and another for those who have some
programming experiences but are novices in Java.
3) For quality's reason, I will set up my own LAN.
4) I will teach in Chinese, NOT in English.
5) I will set up my own consulting company, in which my students can claim 6 month's IT experiences.

I know that there are enough computer training schools in Toronto. Some are very prestigeous, while others have jeapodized
the fame of all training schools. I would be appreciated receiving suggestions and comments on my idea. At the same time,
I have some questions:
1. Is North York a convenient place for me to set up a school?
2. How much will cost me per month if I rent a classroom?
3. Is there any feasibility to boot my school in the rough peer competetions?

PS. I have received some friends's suggest to recommend me to teach for some training schools in Toronto.
I have to decline such goodwills. If making money is the only reason for me to teach Java, I don't need to come to Toronto. What I am pursuing is to foister some programmers and help those who need to to be helped.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

if..... -braveheart(braveheart); 2000-11-15 {229} (#14527@0)
if i fail to apply for a university, no doubt i will apply for your trainning program. it seems to be a pretty opportunity for me to enter the IT profession. keep on working, jabber, i will be on your side.
good luck
braveheart

Since you are determined to learn computer things, I suggest you get familir with Windows operations before you leave China. Don't wait. It is easier for you to learn these basic things in China. -jabber(jabber); 2000-11-16 (#14707@0)
thank for your advice, -braveheart(braveheart); 2000-11-16 {563} (#14731@0)
thank for your advice, actually, i'm just doing the same thing as you say.now i am making a two-handed preparion. i've been studying some cs courses include 'C++' in a local college. meanwhile i've participated a TOEFL training in the new oriental school of guangzhou during the weekend. i have already known the basic operation of windows due to my several years working experince with computers. can you tell me where your trainning school will be and when it will be availabe to your students? i will appreciate your further advice.
good luck
braveheart

What I meant is Windows NT server, workstation, or Windows 2000 Professional -jabber(jabber); 2000-11-17 {188} (#14843@0)
If you want to do computer things, please get rid of Windows 95/98. 95/98 is not for profressional prgramming. I paid a lot of expences for this lesson. I hope you take my lesson here.

真是一个好注意!!! -aabb(爱吃水草的鱼); 2000-11-15 {295} (#14529@0)
偶2月会到多伦多.如果你那个时候需要帮忙,偶也许能尽点力.

偶在国内的CTEC--微软授权培训中心做过2年MCT--微软认证教师,呵呵,学生中已经有数百人成为MCSE或MCSE+I了.尽管你不做微软培训,不过对于培训机制和MS网络还是非常熟悉的,因为偶还有6yr+的网管经验.虽然偶现在是个programmer:)PPP

呵呵...这不算RESUME叭?

Thank you for your message -jabber(jabber); 2000-11-16 {208} (#14706@0)
Hey, 爱吃水草的鱼,

Nice to hear you have more students than I have. If the time matches, I may ask you to help me network my computers. Of course, I will pay you well if my finance is in a good shape.
哇塞，水鱼你是MSCT 啊！佩服！ -guest: 佩服！; 2000-11-16 (#14758@0)

分特!你是不是叫"恭喜"的那个家伙?嘿嘿...虽然用了guest,还是被偶抓到你的小尾巴!kick your小屁屁!! -aabb(爱吃水草的鱼); 2000-11-17 (#14788@0)

水鱼咬我~~ -guest:痛死啦！; 2000-11-17 (#14824@0)
爱吃水草的鱼, Just remind a useful English phrase: Kick your ass! :-):-): -jabber(jabber); 2000-11-17 (#14838@0)

偶是爱吃爱吃水草的鱼 -guest:的猫！！妙！; 2000-11-17 (#14845@0)
多谢jabber,偶现在正在苦练英语习惯呢,嘻嘻,不过确实偶见过酱紫的说法...kick sb's little pee-pee,嘻嘻嘻嘻...偶想这可能是非常非常口语化的,而且只有粗人才用叭:) -aabb(爱吃水草的鱼); 2000-11-19 (#14989@0)

Some words are not as rude as we think to be .... -jabber(jabber); 2000-11-20 {365} (#15090@0)
Dear 爱吃爱吃水草的鱼,

Some word's are not as rude as we think.
The usage of these words depends on the context. For instance, if somebody does something stupid and feels embarrassed,
he/she may say "fuck me". The actual meaning of this phrase is not as bad as
we Chinese think. Of course, ladies and gentlemen had better try to avoid such words.

Jabber: Contact me at cybernomadman@hotmail.com by using MSN message service. I am working from 9:30pm - 5:00 am (your time) -colin(Web Nomad); 2000-11-15 (#14558@0)
some thoughts -alwaysgreen(alwaysgreen); 2000-11-15 {1173} (#14620@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛Yes,It's good idea that holding a training school. And I think it is not only do some training in the school, But we can hold a workroom that we can do some real projects.
That can improve our true skills and exchange the work experience. And we don't need any classroom at first. We can chose a free virtual internet web server or have a trustee web server in ISP and go dutch.
My co-workers and I want to that in China.
We have web designer, programmer, system manager ,database manager... We are in virtual group and just contact by email or messager.But we can do project very well.
Now I suggest them to change our application into java.
I think the workroom can hold a big taining class.and help the people who want to enter in IT field.They can learn the true skill in the group.It have more competitive.

But I think it is hard that we can get some business in Canada.We should know more native canadian friends and have more information. I will try when I go to canada.Now I have only one.We should not rely on the chinese culture and chinese group. That's ture!
I don't know that is good for you or not?
Anyway, silly student have silly topic.
:-)更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

It is a good idea ! We can build a web site which provide service and consulting to help the client project(posted online). -fly_eagle(fly_eagle); 2000-11-15 (#14635@0)

There is fierce competitions in the IT comsulting market. -jabber(jabber); 2000-11-16 {189} (#14704@0)
The fact is: people compete for getting projects, not projects look for people. I don't think anybody will ask you to do a proejct simply because he/she has happened to see your web site.

It is cool! we might setup virtual projects for members of java club. -net007(web007); 2000-11-16 (#14667@0)

A group of Java amateurs cannot achieve much -jabber(jabber); 2000-11-16 {504} (#14705@0)
Some training centers claim they have real projects for students to do. This is impossible. If a company dares to leave its project with a class of students in a training class, this company is probably training center itself.

According to my experiences, if a student can finish 2-3 concept-of-prove things, I am condifdent enough to recommend him as an intermediate Java/Web programmer.

Though I don't understand what your meant by virtual projects, I guess it is difficult to organize.

Thanks for suggestions. It is almost infeasible for Chinese immigrants to grab any projects. -jabber(jabber); 2000-11-16 {273} (#14703@0)
The operational rules of IT industry in North Amaerica is completely different from that in China.

Of course, some competent Chinese guys have seized some venture capital and are starting up their own companies. But I hope I won't work for the boss of these companies.

In fact , my purpose is having a club and everyone can improve computer skills but not for the money. -alwaysgreen(alwaysgreen); 2000-11-16 {824} (#14743@0)
That's my hobby!
What I mean is we have a club ,in fact it is a school.We can do some projects just for free or we can define a project by ourselves.
Maybe you will think that's very stupid.But I think we can have true skills and have more experience. It makes people very happy in a group.Everybody just help each other.
I made mistake that I said "business" , since we are not business man/woman.so we can't do it.
And I know it's very hard to have a company ,
even in China! Not everybody can be a boss.
It's very hard...
In fact , I only want to be a programmer and have fun in programming and have more friends . :-)

I think it can bring vitality for your training school.Anyway, I am very thankful that you want to help the new immigrant and the beginner of IT field.
That 's the true purpose.

I won't provide any free training for adults -jabber(jabber); 2000-11-20 {687} (#14844@0)
Dear AlwaysGreen,

I organized a Java club before I became a professional programmer. But I found it is a mistake. Most people in my club had no mouth. Finally, I just keep a close relationship with one of its member.

Simply speaking, I want to sell my skills and make some money to support my family.
I don't provide any free training for adults, because people don't cherish free stuff.
However, I do have a plan to provide some free training for kids in the community where I live. This is for charity. It is also for positive publicity.

Of course, I will continue to answer some Java related questions here, until some of my students can take over my job. -):

话不能这么说，你去硅谷工作过就知道，中国人在硅谷非常利害 -sch623(Sam); 2000-11-16 {605} (#14745@0)
JABBER这说话的口气怎么1好象带点种族歧视的味道？我们公司就是中国人搞起来的，我也是FOUNDER之一。我们公司现在是硅谷著名的投资商争着来投资。硅谷这样的中国人的公司很多。你如果没有见过只能说明你见不多识不广。
另外，做软件行业，编程语言并不很重要。最重要的是对数据结构和操作系统的理解，以及对PROTOCOL的理解。C＋＋ GURU能在很短时间掌握JAVA。我以前也有一年半JAVA 经验，是在念硕士时候，那时候我一直在用C和C＋＋，但导师的项目是用JAVA，当时只用了半个月学习。。然后就开始做了。我们当时的项目很大，叫做TREVENI，是一个替代THREAD的EVEN T DRIVEN TOOLKIT。感觉只要有C＋＋的基础，懂得OOP的概念，JAVA很快就可以掌握

当然啦,印度人和中国人编程很出名的,在北美也有很多成功的例子.不过... -aabb(爱吃水草的鱼); 2000-11-17 {231} (#14787@0)
还有更多的新移民面临就业的压力,jabber主要是为了帮助这些人,而这些人其实大多数只是缺少北美工作经验,不善于发挥自己的才能而已.对于编程能力很强,适应能力也很强,恰好运气也不错的,偶想jabber当然帮不上什么忙了.
哎~~~~偶多想是酱紫的人哦:)PPP

"酱紫的人"是何人？ -guest:; 2000-11-17 (#14826@0)

这样子啦！ -guest:haha!; 2000-11-17 (#14849@0)

Yes, I am novice-oriented.... -jabber(jabber); 2000-11-17 {1408} (#14842@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛I have never thought about helping those experts. In Virginia and Maryland, I help
those who cannot continue their original carrer and want to migrate to IT industry.
Once I move to Toronto, I think I can help some of new immigrants. According to my understanding, more and more Chinese IT professionals are immigrating to Canada, but some of them cannot count as true programmers. Some of them have obsolete skills. If one has some true, strong skills,
he/she definitely can get a good job. For instance, one of our friends in this forum got a $70 offer in Ottowa.

One cannot become a programmer simply by self-teaching. As I learnt Java, it took me 4 days to make a simple Java application work---- The reason is I did not know the concept of PATH. I worked very hard and is not stupid, but I did not live in an isolated environment. I happened to know a chief architect from a big company in Maryland and he enlighted me a lot. For instance, it is he who told me that I should download Rational Rose and learn some methodologies. Later,
as I need to pretend to be a Weblogic Guru,
it is one of my friends in a start-up company who downloaded the software for me.

I dare to say 50% of Java programmers underestimate the complexites of Java language and platform. 90% of Java programmers have no idea about Java architecture This is where I can get in to help novices.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

Sorry, my words does not apply to those experienced people like Sam. -jabber(jabber); 2000-11-17 {1595} (#14840@0)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛1) I do believe Chinese guys are not good at running IT business. Of course, there are exceptions. Generally speaking, Indians do much better in business than Chinese because of their language advantage.
For new Chinese immgrants, mots of them have lanaguge problems, so it is very hard for them to launch their IT business.

2) In contrast with what Sam described, Jabber has some North-American experiences. He works as a Java comsultant.
He has ever got an offer from Silicon Valley, but he declined. He probably won't be interested in working in Silicon Valley.
BY the way, I have ever worked in New York
and San Diego, CA.

3) I agree with Sam on the following concepts: 做软件行业，编程语言并不很重要。最重要的是对数据结构和操作系统的理解，以及对PROTOCOL的理解. However,
few novices can handle these things. Give you an example. I have ever interviewd a Java guy who used JDBC-ODBC bridge in production. He cliamed before me that JDBC-ODBC is different from JDBC.
Right?

4) Since I began my programmer career, I have not yet been fired. But I have ever terminated a contract in advance. Accidentally, the boss was a Chinese guy.
The reason I asked to release my contract is I could not go along with his CTO.

5) Indeed, 硅谷这样的中国人的公司很多。
However, the people who run these companies usually have very strong technical backgrounds. Ususally, they had worked for other companies for some time
before they started up their own business.
I understand Sam holds a degree in Computer Science from a prestigious US universities.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

@Philadelphia

thank for your advice,

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